a beat is a beat first and foremost...how you gonna argue against sampling when the first rap songs were sampled...i bet 75 percent of the songs you listen to are a sample...the pioneers of hip all used samples...all of reasonable doubt was samples....if you can make a hot beat that people instinctively want to spit on thats all that matters period point blank...you can add as many of your own instruments you want but if no one hot spits on it then it doesnt matter...you couldnt spit on the origianls 70s song could you? probably not....A HOT BEAT IS A HOT BEAT...and the argument that artists dont take from other artists...BULLSHIT...read up on ANDY WARHOL bitch...sampling pictures and adding his own color to it

BABYFINGAAAZ wrote:

QUOTE:
a beat is a beat first and foremost...how you gonna argue against sampling when the first rap songs were sampled...i bet 75 percent of the songs you listen to are a sample...the pioneers of hip all used samples...all of reasonable doubt was samples....if you can make a hot beat that people instinctively want to spit on thats all that matters period point blank...you can add as many of your own instruments you want but if no one hot spits on it then it doesnt matter...you couldnt spit on the origianls 70s song could you? probably not....A HOT BEAT IS A HOT BEAT...and the argument that artists dont take from other artists...BULLSHIT...read up on ANDY WARHOL bitch...sampling pictures and adding his own color to it

I am unclear on "a beat is a beat first and foremost".

I agree that the genre was founded/based on sampling back then. WIth that said, hip-hop has evolved and changed into many different things now...this is straight from the MBS beat battle section:

~ Genre: Hip Hop ~
A general category that could be a mixture of genres or does not fit any other genre

In my opinion, technology has been a huge factor in the evolution of the genre (think about how many new VST's are out for example). I don't think the debate was about "good music vs. bad music" it was about getting a different satisfaction by creating something totally original (if that's possible anymore). Again, just opinions.

yea mckendry what u said bascially , not the sound its the whole inventing helping music grow not finding one sound like linkin park and keepin it cause it sounds sweat and sampling others i dont know some samples sound good doe real good but yes old style beats where samples beacuse hip hop comes from all music to make a instrumental but back then

mckendry, i understand everything you said...i know about the evolution of hip hop ive listened to everything...you can tell if you listen to my beats...i know about all the vsts and all i use them on some of my beats and when i record...when i say a beat is a beat i mean a beat is something rappers spit on...period point blank...whatever you use to make it more appealing to a rapper is up to you...you can listen to a beat all day but it never becomes anything till you spit on it or hear someone spit on it...the only satification i need is someone to spit on it and the fact that it makes what theyre saying even hotter...sampling means more to me than just picking something that sounds hot and putting drums to it...i connect with the original track...put drums on it to where it sounds like they could have really been played...then you add all the effects the reverb the delays and flangers and the whole nine...then comes the mixing of course...in the end im doing just as much work and getting just as much satisfaction...of course ii admire and appreciate an original beat...but its obvious hiphop as become pretty watered down and saturated...i listen to alot of older different types of music and this is my way of connecting the two and showing my appreciation for the past...half the beats up ehre you can even spit on or no one in theyre right mind would spit on...but you cant say that about my beats and thats alllll that matters

you obviously dont listen to enough shit fam...75 of hip-hop to this day is still sampled...sampling is helping music grow..you have to appreciate and respect the past....samplings never gonna go away..theres millions of ways to flip a sample...linkin park doesnt apply in this situation at all...name your favorite rappers and i can name a list of songs they sampled or covered...music is a never ending cycle

BABYFINGAAAZ wrote:

QUOTE:
you obviously dont listen to enough shit fam...75 of hip-hop to this day is still sampled...sampling is helping music grow..you have to appreciate and respect the past....samplings never gonna go away..theres millions of ways to flip a sample...linkin park doesnt apply in this situation at all...name your favorite rappers and i can name a list of songs they sampled or covered...music is a never ending cycle

\BABYFINGAAAZ IM GLAD U SHEDDING LIGHT ON THEM DUDES,CAUSE THEY DONT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND.

but we wasent sayin sampling is bad? or orignal was bad . we was talkin about during a beat battle do people notice the work put into a beat beacsue tehre can be 2 very good beats and one could be sampled and one could be orignal but people go for the sound not the thought of how hard it must of been to make to beats r which producer would be more skilled because the way the beat was made, im just kinda sayin they both good i love hearing tracks with sampled beats as much as with origonal i just say i like to see people try to create new shit that people never heard of and when they do have people notice it and give a little recognition for attemtption to put new shit that can one day be sampled in the future out dere thats all they are both good styles people still sample of course why not its still a style a music back then they sampled of course because hip hop was starting and back den the beats where ... well they wernt the best of course btu there where some but it has gotta more creative. and i used likin park because they found a sound that sounds good and they like ot use it alot so basically its like if u sample alot ull sample alot and most likly probly stop tryina create your own melodies and music from scratch and just start tryin go dj on other peoples music to make a rhythem out of it to make a song to. beacuse u know its gonna sound good cause it been sounded good before u touched it u know lol. theres somthing i feel worth being proud of when u make a whole instrmental out of silence not out of a finished product some one else made but they both are very good in the end.but this isent a argument and every one understands so we mine as welll move on

I am glad to see these responses...a lot of good points being said. One last time, the discussion isn't about good or bad music, or where hip hop originated from. It's obvious that sampling is still widely used in hip hop, the only difference is that now producers have more years to sample from (I've noticed a lot of 80's songs on this site for example). I don't want to bring this thread to another level, but somewhere "musicianship" comes into play. I understand that you need to find the tempo/key of a sample to add more sounds, but there's something to be said for a producer picking up multiple instruments and composing a song from the ground up. For example, I admire the R&B producer Ryan Leslie for thinking up a new track, then going to the piano, bongos, trumpet, live drum kit, etc to bring the idea to life (search youtube to see it in action). Again, great conversation going on music fam.

i do the exact same thing man...all the same steps...i add bongos i add drums inlcuding the rides crashs toms whole nine...i play bass notes on the keys...i dont like trumpets and most of the strins you find are out dated...i see you with ryan leslie but i aint an r7b producer dawg..i respect it but thas not me...obviously it isnt a debate over good music or bad music i just feel like you guys look down on what it really takes to freak a sample and make it really work...and this is about where hip hop came come because im doing exactly the same shit that has always been done and im doing the shit hip hop was founded on....all i use is fruity loops but thats the beauty of hip hop fam i can make it sound like i have an mpc and a sampler...im taking exactly as much time if not longer because its alot longer of a process to make a beat on fruity loops...thats why i say a beat is a beat...whatever you do doesnt matter...you could have cow farts on a beat and if a rapper wants to spit on it then thats all that matters...i respect any beat that i can connect with or has smacking drums...no difference at all..the sample is only one instrument when making beats

yea the sound sample but where talkin whole song samples! lol like loops we all use samples. electronic keyboards all that produce samples tru midi or what ever but those or just notes not an intire cut from some one else u feel me if thats what u mean i donna but yea man i feel u doe

BABYFINGAAAZ wrote:

QUOTE:
i do the exact same thing man...all the same steps...i add bongos i add drums inlcuding the rides crashs toms whole nine...i play bass notes on the keys...i dont like trumpets and most of the strins you find are out dated...i see you with ryan leslie but i aint an r7b producer dawg..i respect it but thas not me...obviously it isnt a debate over good music or bad music i just feel like you guys look down on what it really takes to freak a sample and make it really work...and this is about where hip hop came come because im doing exactly the same shit that has always been done and im doing the shit hip hop was founded on....all i use is fruity loops but thats the beauty of hip hop fam i can make it sound like i have an mpc and a sampler...im taking exactly as much time if not longer because its alot longer of a process to make a beat on fruity loops...thats why i say a beat is a beat...whatever you do doesnt matter...you could have cow farts on a beat and if a rapper wants to spit on it then thats all that matters...i respect any beat that i can connect with or has smacking drums...no difference at all..the sample is only one instrument when making beats

Great points. I agree with what you are saying, and I respect the fact that you implement live instruments. I found an interesting article from 2004 about this subject: http://www.sixshot.com/articles/4259/

"Many hip-hop producers are not like traditional record producers who work in a studio and know how to mic-up the instruments and vocals, producer Hi-Tek says (right on picture). Instead, these hip-hop producers only know their own equipment and work in a small space. They rely on samples".

To your point, Fingaaaz:
"Sampling is so important. It's the foundation of rap and hip-hop," The Roots' co-manager Shawn Gee says. Early rappers like Grandmaster Flash and Sugarhill Gang rapped their rhymes over existing music; that was the art form. As hip-hop evolved, "samples became an instrument" to create new sounds, he says.

"With all the bootlegging and piracy that is affecting the industry, it is no surprise to Damon Dash that companies are going to court to collect on samples. As co-founder of Roc-a-Fella Records with Jay-Z, he believes that using samples is an art form. If there are restrictions on their use, however, then producers have to "step up to the game" and become more creative without using samples. "I look for hit records," Dash says, with or without samples".

Again, great discussion.

and thats a good way to end it...thanks for the love fam on my page...i fuck with anything and everything...sorry i get kinda defensive when talking about sampling...i know the legal issue with sampling and money issue but im not worried about it right now...plain and simple i want to get my shit heard by anyone and everyone...i sit and listen to the runners and drumma boy and all those beats and wish i could sit down and dream those up...but my heart is in those old records

yea lol the hwole thang was to get peoples point of view and there mind on the comparasion of the two styles .. and to the people who say if it sound good its good.? that was kinda when stuff needed to be pushed harder to have people put a little more thaught into the conversation but overall i thank every one for there opionon and facts on this topic and i thought it went well and every one stayed calm and mature on the topic . and i also learned alot from every ones input

Yeah I do believe that sampling is an art of its own, I will always have a love for originality
but can now give much respect to those out there that have mastered the art of sampling.
and is using it appropriately.



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